Ebrahim Saharkhiz; In Iran, we have a commodity-based view of education/Interview with Ali Kalai

He insists that "education does not have the necessary status and dignity and is not the country's top concern. They will have a thousand excuses if it does not exist." He himself was once the deputy minister of secondary education in the second government of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

Corona and the state of education in the country are issues that have concerned those concerned about education in Iran. The state of the Shad network, the state of the internet in the country, and the history of the education system in Iran are also no secret to anyone. With this in mind, and in order to examine the current state of virtual education in the country, we went to Ebrahim Saharkhiz, former Deputy Minister of Education and education expert, and asked him some questions. By diagnosing the state of the education network in the country and the Shad network, he reports on the lack of education of students, teachers, and parents regarding cyberspace. While diagnosing the pathology of virtual education in Iran and the Shad network, he says that three groups of students, teachers, and parents have not received proper education in the field of cyberspace. He continues: "We did not take the use of virtual education, E-learning seriously and even ridiculed it."

But one of the points raised in this conversation is the need for free education in Iran. In this regard, Saharkhiz told the Peace Line that "we had a commodity-based view of education" and announced that "our minister owns a school. We are faced with the principle of conflict of interest here."

He also added, "All the education ministers were thinking about running education cheaply. Cheap education means not having a virtual network. It means not having strong and capable teachers. It means not having equipped schools and art schools. It means hiring teachers who buy educational services and pay them the minimum wage of a worker."

The deputy minister of education in Ahmadinejad's second administration also noted that "the happy network is a choice between bad and worse." Regarding its consequences, he said, "The happy network will definitely lead to a severe, visible and hidden decline in education. We should have expected this for years. The educational gap will lead to great injustice, the results of which we will see in the entrance exam and elsewhere, and in the illiteracy of students."

He added, examining the network, "Of course, I see a rentier side. The man who is in charge of this network owns distance learning centers. He was one of the founders of distance learning centers in Iran and took over this network."

Saharkhiz also discusses the hidden curriculum and its absence in virtual education and the Shad network, addressing the impact of teachers, administrative staff, and even the school principal on students, saying that in this area, "Our biggest concern right now is first grade. In the first grade, the student develops a lasting emotional relationship with the teacher." An emotional relationship that is no longer achieved with the virtualization of education.

In the end, Ebrahim Saharkhiz told the Peace Line: "In Iran, we don't have a problem with laws. We have the document, thank God. Some people are document merchants. A group of people who go from province to province talking about the document and taking money for it. But nothing happens in implementation. We want implementation. We all know what is going on in Finland or Japan, for example, and what they are doing. The question is, what are you doing in Iran? What has happened in our schools?"

You can read the details of the monthly Khat Sohleh interview with Ebrahim Saharkhiz, former Deputy Minister of Education and education expert, below:

What is your assessment of the current state of virtual education in Iran during the Corona era? In your opinion, what damage has the current situation caused to our educational system?

Education has not yet taken virtual education seriously. The media literacy of students, teachers, and parents is low. Whether we like it or not, parents are a part of the participation in the learning and teaching process of students and can be influential. They can provide a suitable environment for teaching and learning. They can provide students with diversity in learning environments and better experiences and opportunities to experience. That is, we are not going to say that if our students and teachers are capable, the work is finished and we have fulfilled our mission. No. We should not ignore that part either. That is, we have three groups of students, teachers, and parents. I believe that despite the high internet penetration rate in Iran and many have access to smartphones or tablets and other hardware, a significant portion of our teachers, parents, and students still do not have the ability to work with these. Let's not forget that in some places the infrastructure is not ready. I saw a clip in Nahavand where students are traveling dangerous roads to access the internet, to get to the other side of the mountain or to the village where there is a line so they can use the internet for free. This means that we have not yet been able to provide the infrastructure.

The document on the transformation of basic education states that new technologies are to be used intelligently. Technologies in the field of communication and virtual networks also have their place. If we want learning to be more consolidated or, as psychologists say, learning to be meaningful and to make students think and what they learn to remain deep in the student's soul forever, we need to produce electronic content to make learning more attractive, in addition to books and even when the school is open. The research organization is in charge of this matter and should also seek the participation of the private sector. They should produce content. They should monitor the media that have worked in this field and give them standards based on the resolution of the Higher Education Council. No serious action has been taken in this regard. What is available in the market has been developed with the entrance exam in mind. That is, all their thoughts and worries are to prepare students for the final exam, the entrance exam or the gifted exam. This has not been done. We did not take the use of virtual education, e-learning seriously and even ridiculed it. I remember when we were in the ministry and the discussion of smart schools was raised, some said that we have so many problems that they are lost on them. That we should go and buy tablets and smartphones and then in schools, along with the chairs and desks that are scrapped, these too will be scrapped. It is natural that until yesterday, wooden tables and chairs were scrapped in schools, and in the future, perhaps in our scrap property circuit, smart boards will be. Don't mobile phones get updated today? You and your family use new and new generation mobile phones. Because some software cannot be installed and used on old mobile phones. This is a natural process. There is no need to ridicule this. Now, if we have a problem of lack of budget and credits, let's invite people to participate or divide the work into several stages and phases and move forward. We did not take content production seriously. We did not empower teachers. We ignored the necessary infrastructure in the villages, in the nomadic areas, in the cities. A number of our non-government schools and special schools, such as the gifted schools, may be in a better situation compared to the others, but of course they are still far from the desired ideal. The problem is that content production has not been done. They have only created glamour and have been raised in exams such as the entrance exam. Otherwise, this issue has not really found serious entry in Iran. This issue has no place.

You mentioned both the budget issue and the lack of seriousness of the country's educational system in this area. Where do you think the problem lies? Do we have a legal problem and we don't have a written law for it, or do we have a law, but the executive body is not doing what it should when it comes to implementation?

Our work is beyond the law. This issue has become a necessity today. Now, in the Corona situation, a rural student crosses four lanes and suffers the damage of being hit by a truck and a car to get to his lesson. He feels in danger that he has fallen behind the others and has suffered an academic decline. After all, education is not the first priority in our country. Officials talk nicely. But the first concern of this country is not education. While if you read the books written in the field of economics of education and development, some believe that education leads to development and development leads to the accumulation of wealth. Some say the opposite, that we should first focus on the production and accumulation of capital and then bring this capital and spend it on education. I am not looking for a theoretical discussion. But I want to conclude that both views have one thing in common. That common thing is that education produces human capital. It is education that can mobilize social capital to strengthen the system and the government. Whenever we say something like this, governments think that they should increase teachers' salaries four or five times. Especially in the face of this inflation, this salary increase is nothing. But no! If you reach the status and status of a teacher, which is accompanied by a livelihood and is a priority, in the process of recruiting and selecting teachers, you no longer approach teachers as a purchase of educational services. You don't go to hire a kilo. In the parliament, the party in a city has all their families become teachers as a purchase of services. The party comes and lobbies with a resolution and says that all of these should be absorbed into education and training. I want to say that education does not have the necessary status and status and is not the first concern in the country. They will have a thousand excuses if it is not. They say that we do not have the budget. They say that in the conditions of Corona and today's economic conditions, we have so many priorities that local education is not like Arabs. Also, I believe that this has been the view in education and training for the last forty years.

The next point is serious determination. That the supervisory bodies ask the minister for a time-bound roadmap in education. Look, it is ridiculous now that every minister who comes to education writes four pages and goes there on the day of the vote of confidence and says this is my plan. If our representative is wise, he will say, Mr. Minister, put your plan aside! Because the plan is clear. You have a document of transformation. Even if there is no document of transformation, the future path is clear. Tell me what you have done for media literacy? Tell me what you have done for students to think? What have you done to update teaching and learning methods? And what do you want to do? If we had a specific action plan as an agreement, the parliament should have asked for it. But that has not happened. Eight years of Mr. Rouhani and four years of the previous government, we have been saying, sir!

Use new technologies. Use the virtual education network. There is no plan and no one wants to do this. I want to say that our problem is not just the budget. No one is going to evaluate what steps have been taken in these years. They say they have a low budget? I have observed that every year people pay at least 30 percent of education costs. That is, no matter how much the government claims about the education budget, for example, in 2020 it was about 65 to 66 trillion, but if we try to round it up, it will be 70 trillion tomans, 30 percent of this money is paid by the people. Whether in villages or in cities. It varies and is more or less, but it happens. In our special government schools, they charge huge tuition fees. Here, if they had a plan, they would say why don't you direct this 30 percent towards infrastructure? It needs hardware. Teachers need to be trained. Books and software need to be produced for them. But this was not the will. It has been done in an insular and tasteful manner. We have always appointed marginal forces as Minister of Education.

If I were to summarize, first, education is not our top priority. We did not create a proper culture. The supervisory agencies do not have an operational plan or a timetabled roadmap that says what they should do in the short, medium, and long term. There is no plan based on which they can move and then question and impeach the government and the executive branch. There has been no such thing. Of course, it is the same in other areas.

Mr. Saharkhiz, according to the constitution, education in Iran is free and the government is obligated to provide this free education throughout the country. Four decades have passed since the revolution and the establishment of the system. But now, when it comes to virtual education, we do not have such a problem. As you said, students have to take risks to access the Internet. Or students commit suicide because they do not have a smartphone or tablet and do not have access to virtual education. What do you think happened that we are faced with such a situation today?

As I mentioned, education is not our first priority. It is not the concern of the officials. It is not on the table of the country's leaders. They talk, but we see nothing in practice. From time to time, they increase teachers' salaries, which is not proportionate to inflation. Of course, that is the effect of social pressure. But the cause of these problems is that we had a commodity view of education. Despite the explicit text of the constitution. Most countries in the world have almost the same view and say that education is the right of every citizen. This right is also explicitly recognized in the constitution and can never be interpreted or interpreted. I sometimes saw the Guardian Council's negotiations to approve non-governmental and non-profit schools - I think I was in the 70s. I myself was really surprised how the gentlemen interpreted and interpreted this term so clearly and explicitly that there is no contradiction in opening non-governmental schools and people should come and participate.

Our minister has his own school. We are faced with the principle of conflict of interest here. Almost all of the ministers who once said that private schools are bad now defend private schools. Those who once chanted the slogan of free education and educational justice have today taken three or four thousand square meters of land in the best parts of Tehran, such as the West District, and turned it into a school. All of them sit on our Education Council and write books, give speeches, and dictate to the minister. The Presidential Strategic Studies Center, which is run by Mr. Hesameddin Ashna, made recommendations to the Minister of Education and the President in 2017 that leaving certain schools open, such as those for gifted children and government models where rural people study well, is an obstacle to the development of private schools. Mr. Fani, the Minister of Education of the 11th government, specified as a roadmap that we could increase the number of private schools from eight percent to twenty percent during the eight years of the Rouhani government. This has been and is being dictated to the provincial directors-general. Mr. Hashemi Rafsanjani came to the development program in his own time and designed it with the agents so that one of the development indicators is the growth of non-government schools, despite the explicit text of the constitution. This deviation began from there and continues to this day.

All the ministers of education were thinking that education should be run cheaply. Cheap education means not having a virtual network. It means not having a strong and capable teacher. It means not having a well-equipped school and art school. It means hiring a teacher to buy educational services and paying him at least the salary of a worker. And that is not cash. It is a loan. After a year, they pay him the salary of a teacher. Mr. Rouhani said that we are asking the parliament to agree that we will transfer ten percent of public schools to the private sector every year. Who is instilling this in Mr. President? The same ministers and those who dictate this to him in education. The same thinking is in education now. I will not name names. Someone who is very knowledgeable in the field of curriculum planning and I accept his expertise in this field. He says that we should distribute coupons to the people. And give a subsidy to the people and then remove all schools from the government. People should receive a subsidy for their children. Now whoever put more money into it goes to a better school. Everyone with the same subsidy was able to find a school, send their child to study. That means you recognize class differences and the classification of education. This charter school plan also went bankrupt in America. In England, they prevented the implementation of such a plan.

What I want to say is the commercial and commercial view of education. Making education and training cheap. Reducing costs. That is, some people believe that education and training is not an investment. It is a cost. Since it is a cost, costs should be reduced. They believe that a dam has added value and we should spend money on it. A cement factory has added value and we should spend money on it. But close down the man-made factory or let anyone run it cheaply.

Let's take a look at the Happy Network, or the student social network, and see what you think about it. What is your assessment and pathology of this Happy Network?

Unfortunately, a significant portion of parents, teachers, and students, both urban and rural, do not have the necessary media literacy, and we have a problem in this regard. Regarding this network, we also have a problem with the lack of infrastructure. We currently have internet problems in some areas. Or there have been cases where, in the context of the coronavirus, the school principal has been forced to make teachers absent. Because we were unable to seriously attract the participation of parents in the Shad network, and then we are oblivious to their needs.

Of course, I must say that the Shad network is a choice between bad and worse. In the Corona situation, it is an option against being completely closed. The Shad network is better than nothing in this situation. But imagine a family from a vulnerable sector living in a room. Some of them don't even have a TV. They don't have the necessary acquaintances. They don't have devices such as smartphones and tablets. Then the Executive Headquarters of the Imam's decree said, "We will give the tablet for four million tomans, to be paid in six installments." Well, these servants of God don't have the same money and ability. Supervision by parents who themselves were not trained. In a room with four or five children. How can they supervise? And then, because we didn't give the necessary training in media literacy to the students before, the student has a limited learning capacity. In the classroom with their peers, with that enthusiasm and face-to-face look from the teacher, many students simply don't learn. One of the things that disrupts learning is the learning environment itself. How do we expect a small mobile phone, a family of five or six people sitting in a room, a student in that room to understand the lesson and respond to it? The teacher will ask him? There is no mechanism for monitoring either. The happy network will definitely lead to a severe, visible and hidden educational decline. We should have expected this for years. The educational gap will lead to great injustice, the results of which we will see in the entrance exam and elsewhere and in the illiteracy of students. The forgiveness and leniency that we had in these exams. For example, this leniency was done just last year and everyone passed.

The next point is that because electronic content production has not taken place, the methods that teachers now use via mobile phones are the same as one-way lectures. Because the teacher is not trained, he cannot have the necessary flexibility and use the advantages of this network. The authorities themselves had said that this system has problems that will be gradually resolved. But what we see is that these problems have not been resolved. Then this happy network cannot have the necessary attractions to keep the student engaged and interested in it. Student behavior at home cannot be controlled at all in these conditions. There are disturbing factors. There is interference. There are environmental disruptive factors. There are livelihood problems. I know that some of our students have become child laborers. That is, today's livelihood problems have led them to an environment where learning has been abandoned. Academic failure has increased. Social harms and risky behaviors are also lurking in the minds of these students. In this regard, I think we should have formed monitoring groups that would be present in different provinces and regions and follow up on the work. This network has not given the provinces the independence to define a provincial or local regional happy network for themselves. This monitoring is weak. Of course, I see a rentier side here. The man who is in charge of this network has his own distance learning centers. He was one of the founders of distance learning centers in Iran and took over this network.

We are facing this virtual education. This virtual education is also accompanied by effects such as student inactivity and the lack of educational impact of schools. In your other conversations, you mentioned the hidden curriculum, which in this situation is the responsibility of parents. What is your view on this area and what do you think can be done to solve these problems, given the current situation we are facing?

This is a good point. We have an approved curriculum. We have an ongoing curriculum. We have a hidden curriculum. It should not be thought that what happens in school is only what is conveyed from the content of textbooks and ends with exams. A hidden education happens in school. That is, from the school's father, the executive agents who come and go, the students themselves with each other, those who interact in the school and come and go. All of these affect the behavior, belief, thought, and outlook of the student. Incidentally, these may have a longer lasting effect on the behavior, mind, and memory of the student than the content of the textbooks. In the past, when school ended, children would tear up their textbooks and if a month later someone asked them what such and such a problem was from such and such a lesson, no one would have an answer! But a series of memories would remain in the student's mind. It would say that a certain teacher, a certain school employee, or a certain person at school taught me a lesson that is still in my mind after decades of life and has become a part of my behavior. It has changed my outlook and thoughts on life. This hidden lesson can be positive or negative. Now, in a situation where children have become housewives and are sometimes alone at home. We don't have educational programs for children. Some children even become salespeople and do business. Now, it depends on the environment. Whether you are on the outskirts of the city or in the upper part of the city. Every place has its own problems. This is where we did not provide the necessary education to parents. It is true that television sometimes brings a psychologist and sometimes a psychiatrist or various professors, each of whom has scattered advice for fighting depression and the problems of being alone. All of these have a structure in education. But we are weak in practice and implementation. For example, we had a parents' and teachers' association, which has now become a council. What have we really done to educate parents? I'm not saying now and I'm not exonerating myself. I want to say that we haven't done well in this area in the last forty years and we are lagging behind the world. We didn't take parental participation seriously. We didn't give parents the necessary training. So now we want to bring up sex education. Some people are against it. We want to say that we should take the issue of child abuse seriously, some people say that don't bring it up because if you bring it up (bring it up and explain it), such and such will happen. This is part of the work that should be brought up with parents. Or, for example, when all children from villages to cities now have to deal with up-to-date mobile phones, do you think that all their worries and sorrows are the Shad network?! Don't they enter other areas?! Don't other problems arise there on the Internet and in other places? They get used to cyberspace. This addiction to cyberspace has both advantages and disadvantages. What have we done in this regard? We were supposed to fill the educational gaps in the Shad network. Of course, I'm not necessarily saying that education should be separated from training, because textbooks and teachers have both an educational and an educational role, and this is a combined matter.

Also, for example, what have we done to boost the morale of students? How are we going to solve student sports? Or how are we going to create connections between students? How are we going to fill the space of mornings, recess, camps, and many programs and competitions at school? Now, the place of all of these has been filled by the home. With the problems and difficulties that have arisen for some families. Especially in the bankrupt economic conditions of the Corona virus. The behavioral damage that has arisen. At one time, for six to eight hours at school, children had contact with different types and were evacuated from sadness and grief and the space of the home, and this space complemented the student's personality. Now, especially for children starting elementary school, this opportunity has been taken away. In the first grade of elementary school, nothing can fill the place of the teacher and the face-to-face look between the teacher and the student. Our biggest concern now is the first grade. In the first grade, the student finds a lasting emotional relationship with the teacher. We have included in the transformation document that the first three years of education are periodic. That is, not even the teacher should be changed. Because the student gets to know the teacher in the first grade. When the teacher changes in the second grade, the student cries. The teacher has taken the place of his mother. The transformation document states that the teacher in the first, second, and third grades should not be changed if possible. That is, the same teacher should be there for three years. Why do they talk about a single teacher in the primary school? Because the emotional perspective and that psychological connection are permanent and are very effective in the student's situation. So how are you going to fill this gap now? There are many issues that are not visible, they are not part of the official education and upbringing exams. But they are and remain effective in the student's learning, thinking, and behavior. We call these the hidden curriculum.

Mr. Saharkhiz, in any case, we are facing this situation now. That is, we are in the Corona situation. Our education system is not educated. We also have the Shadi network, which you mentioned. You were also the Deputy Minister of Education for a period. Given your experience in the executive branch and your expert view, what can be done in the current situation? Is it possible to solve the problem with a few small changes? Or do we need a fundamental change in this education structure to achieve results?

In my opinion, Corona, with all its evils, had a benefit. It opened our eyes and ears to our problems. It made our pests, problems, and injuries clear and serious for us. I believe that nothing can replace school. We have an educational package in the Transformation Document that is not just books. Now, this Corona has appeared unexpectedly. We were forced to close our schools. Because we were forced to close, we are now forced to say that with all the good and bad things of the Shad network, we must build. This is better than nothing. Let's come and diagnose this now. If the Corona vaccine is found in two days and schools open, let's not put the matter behind our ears. Let's learn from the unexpected events that happen and not say, for example, an earthquake or a flood came and ended and went away. Now that the incident has been found and we have understood where our Achilles heel is, let's plan to solve it. The parliament should now grab the minister's collar and ask him what his short-term, medium-term, and long-term plans are regarding the virtual education program and the intelligent use of new technologies. We want these on paper and we also want an evaluation. If the problem is budget and it can't be done in one year, it should be done in five or ten years. But tell me what you have done? This hasn't happened. As we say, whatever the transformation document is, implement ten percent of it. Where is that ten percent? What have you done, and why isn't it being done? Some of the words in this document are words that can be defended in UNESCO and other international organizations, and they are defending them. What have you done for the positive points of this document? Why aren't you taking steps? When there is talk of quality teachers and quality education, and you yourself say that we need to strengthen Farhangian University and Shahid Rajaee University, why do you hire a contract teacher and pay him 400,500,000 tomans per month?

Now the Shad network is a moving train. We can fix its problems. Where there is no internet access, so the Minister of Information Technology can come in. Some students do not have mobile phones. Donors can come in. If it is possible, education can help. Mr. President can help. If a loan or special allocation is going to be made, a part of it should be for here. Because educational justice is an issue that, if ignored, will cause many problems for society tomorrow. Let's finally fix this moving train. But let's be careful not to ignore the problems if schools open tomorrow. The time for using chalk and blackboards is over. For example, biology cannot be taught with the same old lecture method. Some of our schools do not have laboratories now. But now with a tablet, you can take a chemistry laboratory to the classroom. These are the positive features of virtual education and it should be placed next to books. For example, the research organization should come in and produce electronic content. Train teachers. Along with books, there should also be educational packages, software, and CDs.

In Iran, we don't have a problem with laws. We have a document, thank God. Some people are document merchants. A group of people who go from province to province talking about documents and taking money for them. But nothing happens in implementation. We want implementation. We all know what's going on in Finland or Japan, for example, and what they're doing. The question is, what are you doing in Iran? What has happened in our schools?

Source: HRANA